Event ID: 3018864
Event Started: 8/16/2016 11:49:41 AM ET
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Welcome to today's conservation webinar. My name is Holli Kuykendall and I am the national specialist for NRC has these techno-support center in Queens borough.
-- East national technology support Center your this presentation was recorded on August recorded on August 10, 2016. You can download a PDF to the presentation slides from today's handout pod, and as if file for today's links pod today's webinar offers, medicine -- American -- conservation planner CEU. Use step two.net window to take a brief post test. Enter credentials and receive certificate by email. We will submit your CEU on your behalf, the first of next month please submit your conservation to meet local requirements. We encourage you to use the step to process. It provides an opportunity to entity -- and you can submit optional comments to our program. When writing their webinar cough focus on technical training. And what you have learned by participating in it I want to thank southern regional forestry for partnering with NRCS and -- --@conservationwebinar.net.
I am pleased to turn the webinar over to Kevin ogles. These are grazing specialist.
Think you Holly. -- Thank you Holly you are in for a great treat today. And we are glad you are with us and have an interest in these winter feeding strategies. And what can we do to keep the animals grazing. And not to feed hay for several months during the non-growing season.
We are very privileged, and glad to have Jan for -- Victor R. Shelton, State Agronomist/Grazing Specialist, Natural Resource Conservation Service, victor.shelton@in.usda.gov . Victor lips out what's he teaches people in the NRCS . For you and CEU planners, Victor will be presenting this as if he is talking to producers. And I thought it would be very good for us to hear that. So we can use some of that same language when working with reducers. -- Producers.
Victor has his own operation, he has experienced this, for years. And it is experience and his NRCS knowledge and universities that he has gone this knowledge. We are thankful to have Victor with us today. I will turn it over to you to get started.
Think you Kevin. -- Thank you Kevin.
I live and work here in the Midwest. Most information is applicable, also beyond with minor adjustments.
Before we start about winter feeding, I think we should discuss a few things first. Firstly, animal numbers. It is usually the last thing that producers like to discuss. Especially, if they are overstock. You think about the normal coffee shop type conversation about cows -- more about how many you have, or what is going on with them. And they like to say, while I run 50 cows now. But you usually don't hear too much about the bottom line. Or how many days you did not feed hay. But we need to.
More cows -- does not always mean more profit. Quite often, just the opposite. And it is due to the increased cost, increased inputs that are needed to maintain that number.
Especially when animal numbers exceed your forage resources. And quite often, that is usually realized during the winter.
More moderate stocking greats -- rates are usually more profitable. That is what really matters, at least for me, that is how I look at it. The bottom line is very important to me.
Often though, equals income minus cost. Something to remember. We will try to manage more cows, efficiently handled. And it will require more input, in order to balance the equation.
And lower the likelihood of having good profit. We need to sharpen our pencil to figure what our caring capacity is, and ideally, it probably should not exceed the amount of far-reaching we can raise on the farm. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule.
The first question comes to mind, to me, especially as we approach fall, is usually will there be enough feed and forage for all of the livestock until spring?
Generally, it's a good idea to evaluate all these options, and balance out your wife -- livestock with any feed you have on hand. I think we should look at the grays and type of animals present. Different classes, heifers, stockers, and use an figure an average weight of class times the animals in the class. This example we have on the screen. We have 35 cows at 1100 pounds which gives us 38 500 -- 38 -- 38,500. 12 cows At 55 zero -- 550 pounds. That totals a little over 47,000 pounds of life weight.
Those cows will continue to grow some overwinter. Whether they are on far riches or some hay, so let's say, on average like 650 pounds over the next five months. Under and above our total is about 48,000 pounds.
Growing animals are usually going to have a higher metabolism rate. But to keep things simple, we will just use a intake -- DM. And get us in the ballpark of what we are looking at.
48,075 pounds life weight times 3% is 1442 pounds per day. Dry matter. Every day.
These animals will consume that amount, whether we raise it or buy it, grace it or feed it.
The next question, where will it come from? And how will it affect the bottom line? What do we have available? And what can we grow?
What do we have in storage feed? Stockpile? Crop residue? Hey? May be supplements. They are all possibilities. If you follow my article, you have heard me say it before, anything that the animal harvest is self is cheaper than any think you can by, raise.
Some of the information today, some may think is a little anecdotal. But after you see the same results and the same action, over and over again, you feel 30 comfortable with it. I will let you make the decision as to where you are on some of it.
Kevin mentioned this the other day, just because someone has not done the research paper to prove it's true, does not mean it is not true. And he's correct.
Let's start with stockpile storage. -- Forage. [ Indiscernible ] Possibly from Orchard grass and bluegrass. [ Indiscernible ] Certainly not my favorite forage in the summertime.
It can certainly shine in the wintertime as stockpile. You can get a ballpark idea at the amount present, by simply lying cardboard on top of the standing soil. And measure the height of that compressed forage.
If the stand is dense, then there is usually about 300 pounds of dry matter. If you say you have 10 inches, that is 3000 pounds. That is certainly a lot more present.
You do not want to remove all of it. Let's say you want to remove 6 inches. That is 1800 pounds available for grazing. That's 1800 pounds grazing for every acre you have stockpile.
If the failed is -- adjust [ Indiscernible ]as needed. I will use 200 I will use 250 pounds per acre inch if it stands a little thinner.
This information is often found on a grazing stick. I was taking that against clippings, and for the most part, it's pretty accurate. If you are more accurate estimate, clip of block. I use a 12 x 20 3 in.² -- piece of rebar, 1.92 ft.² square. And I try it, waiting grams and multiply it times 50 to get time out -- pounds per acre dry weight. Now you have a good idea of how much is there, during that timeframe.
The efficiency of grazing the stock while will be depend upon how you allocated out. If you let the stock have the entire field, then expect 60 up to maybe 75% utilization. At best, you will get 1800 pounds off of it. If you allocated out, like you are feeding hay, the temporary fence providing one or two days at a time, defining the efficiency will be closer to 90%.
It is not -- dominantly fall regrowth. And you have left over summer growth in their, you may want to switch to a high density, short duration type grazing system. That some people would call [ Indiscernible ] Bob grazing. You will get slightly better results. Leaves the field more primed for next spring.
Strip grazing get is certainly the most efficient way to allocated out. We will show a strip grazing going across the field in this slide. You need three sets of strips and post. Ideally if you are not going to be live act grazing. Those animals are moving forward constantly caught and removing the tracks. Once that is the front friends -- fence. And then moving forward for the next move. I personal would like to do so as -- the day before so it is ready. And the cattle are not waiting for you to put it up. They get very eager to move. And do not want to wait until I move a fence. It's easier to have it done ahead of time. So once you get there, you can get the gay and will brand. And you can take your time building your next transfer the next day.
-- Next fence.
If we are not back fencing and moving across the field, and let it go back for water, usually best not to back grace more than three or four days. Back grazing more than that can lead to trailing back to the water, and grazing and regrowth, if you are still doing this in the growing season.
That certainly reduces your rest.
Here, we have eight area -- aerial view that has been strip. And you can see exactly where the temporary fence was. It's better not to put that temporary fence back in the exact same spot every time. Very a little bit. And you end up with better results in the long run.
Stockpile tall desk may yield from -- it's a topic on its own. It will not be today. Fertility has to be sufficient. And ideally a good component needs to be present for an oxygen source. That lagoon component is normally Clover. I like to see at least 30% at dry weight. At the Piermont Clover.
If it is not 30% dry weight, then addition of nitrogen will help [ Indiscernible ] protein and yield some. If you apply not judging it needs to be done in late August and early said Amber heard ideally, with enough moisture present to avoid nitrogen from [ Indiscernible ].
Normally, only about 40 OR 50 pounds of actual [ Indiscernible ] is needed. I have seen more put on. [ Indiscernible ] I have seen boost warrant doing that.
Stockpile -- is specially. Pile is extremely dependent on available water during that growth.. Even more so than fertility.
Yields, therefore, can vary a lot.
Snow and ice. Influences grazing. Ice is more about limiting component or factor than snow.
I felt sorry for animals before grazing in early deep snow. And took hay to them. Only two watch them nibble at it, and then returned back to the stock pile forage.
A lot of the stockpile forage is quite often, better quality than the hay we feed.
Cattle do not want to raise through that deep snow. They really don't mind it. Most will grace quite well in snow up to the depth of their eyes. Where I have placed the red line on the screen.
The more growth you have on stock piles forages, the more mash you will have. Both [ Indiscernible ] help grazing. The more growth you have the more protection you have. Otherwise, the weather [ Indiscernible ] the smaller the allocation the smaller the grazing. How you should have to protect that resource.
If you have a lot of growth out there, then you can actually hit it a bit harder and stay on it a bit longer if you need to. You will always quickly know, the next spring, if you have missed out. Funny how it works that way. You can always guarantee that you will have a nice plush weed appearing.
Everyone has done it, and I have certainly done it.
Now we will look at our inventory. Especially hay that we have on hand. I -- it should be more of but insurance policy or a contingency plan, rather than a plan for long-term use.
That is not what most people do. You should have an idea on how much Bales way and how much do you have of each. If you have 1500 pound bales, in reality, is about 1300 pounds on hand. Essentially, you have 103,000 pounds of hate available.
-- Hey.
The efficiency of this hay is dependent upon how you feed it. Plus how it is stored. Select the worst-case scenario is hay that is pre-choice, without any feeding structure, [ Indiscernible ] and where it is stored outside on the ground. Sadly, you can waste as much as 45% of that offered hay.
Most permanent winter feeding areas need a heavy use area, rock band. Helping keeping the cows out of the mod. -- Mud . Keeping the cows out. And [ Indiscernible ]reduce loss to your hay that you are trying to feed. These should be positioned away from water flow areas and [ Indiscernible ]. Feeding enough hay for only two or three days at a time, creating some competition between animals and cows, where there in rings our home type feeders or storing Bales inside is efficient. And it will probably give you an average about 15% waste cause sometimes higher, depending upon the quality of the hay.
I like fence line type leaders for hay. Like we seen the picture. As it certainly can increase efficiency, but, at better, you can feed them hay in these feeders in your Sunday clothing.
[ Indiscernible ] They don't have to get with the cows. And you can:off of a lane or a road, into their Conder cows come up and they can feed on three different sides of it.
There is approved versions of this that I have seen built. An interesting structure in this picture. It kept the hay drive. If you wanted to last longer, being just a few cows. As long as not too much hay is that at one time, and competition is still present, even these are pretty efficient.
Traditional feeding areas can a -- be a mighty mass. Mod will cost you money. It increases stress, energy requirements, possibly disease issues, and decrease intake.
Making the harder to maintain those animals.
Certainly increased energy needs. Let's talk about feeding hay a bit more. Primarily feeding in rings of structures. This type of feeding is done in the same -- area -- year after year. You are moving nutrients that you built the hay and, to a site where nutrients and organic matter or operably now already high. The next spring, or early summer, you have to or should, be scraping and loading and hauling the minority and hay waste back on the areas needing nutrients.
It does not always get done. It always surprises me how often I see hay fields or pasture fields, for hay, year after year, without ever returning those removed nutrients back to it.
Small bells, hand fed and feeders are the most efficient. Certainly, or a lot more labor intensive. And not used as often as in the past.
I grew up small bells, and I think they have an advantage.
If you have balers on tan that you can feed, you can figure into the pit, and -- picture. And 90% efficiency with dry weight as you feed that.
Ideally, hey should be fed back onto either the field with the hay was removed, over nutrients or organic matter or low or lacking.
This raises efficiency, when you consider the need, especially having to haul them in nor back there if you have given it somewhere else.
Lacking soil, nutrient wise, will benefit from those nutrients, from the wasted hay, urine, your, organic matter left behind. Sometimes, even seed when the forage is in the hay. If I have a preference, and not feeding go huge number of animals, needing to supplement them. Feeding small Bales where nutrients are needed is probably cost certainly the absolute most efficient. Quite often, if you bales that would be needed to halt out on a large ATV, and fed daily like this, almost no ways, especially with quality hay. No waste. Plus you need to check the cows at the same time.
The next, probably most efficient method, is unveiling Bales. There are several types of rollers, from three point hits PTO, driven rollers to dragging type rollers, which can unroll hay like unrolling a roll of toilet paper.
You also have the option of bringing -- burning extra calories and rolling get out by hand. Just like Drake is doing in this picture. I have seen tractors and trucks and ATVs, equipped with wheels on the front, where you can push the bales to unroll them. I have tried that myself. The downside to that is, you end up driving over I fair amount pay, and I think that increases waste a bit.
Veil grazing is the next efficient. -- Bail. Better than feeding in rings than in a set location. Now you are feeding where nutrients are needed. And moving that same hay with a tractor, might have been more difficult causing erosion, because of wet soil conditions later in the winter. With this type of bail grazing, they are set out where they will be consumed.
Even -- right after, or more ideally in late fall and early winter, were soil conditions are still favorable. They are spaced with enough room between each of them, that they can easily be fed independently, or in groups.
Temporary fence is used to protect it and used to allocate the needed Bales. In this case, we set aside, we have put out three balers to be fed.
These Bales with the entire area, will return tomorrow by posted version of its former self after one year or two. Once you feed on a site like this, you get organic matter stuff left there and take a little while to heal. But it is better in the long run. It is best not to use the same area more than once.
Maybe -- once per year.
I have found that [ Indiscernible ]. Generally, if 16 two if 16 220 feet between Bales is ideal. If you are running small rivets, but can be a bit closer.
I've personally, like to try to use hay, more of an insurance policy or a contingency plan, rather than just a plan for long-term use. There are few winters were hay can be completely avoided, as I realize that. I am not advocating that you should cop a most people do not need to feed Haim more than 90 days.
I have list -- listen to [ Indiscernible ] how long they feed hay in the winter? If you ask someone in Missouri, and in Mississippi, they will give you the same number of days, about 130.
We feed hay to the extent that we make hay.
I, personally, try to feed less hay each year. And as first production improves, with added management, now having the choice to either expand the grazing season more, or increasing animal numbers, or possibly both.
Another thought on hay, it does often vary in quality. It's usually better to feed lower quality hay first, and save the best for last. Nobody wants to eat the broccoli after having ice cream.
We need to consider -- when we feed the hay. Most would think that you start feeding hay after there is nothing left to graze. That is the way most of it is done, but that is not the most efficient way. Remember, I said, I prefer to feed hay like a contingency plan. One of those unplanned emergency events, such as a trout, as you see in the picture. -- Drought. We had a major drought in 2012 lots of producers Vannatter pastures quickly.
Quite often, what you thought were all gates opened and the cows roaming freely across the fields, and quickly consuming any grain they can find. It was a tough summer. And I sort drastic measures taking place. Two things saved farms that year. Having a field of warm season grasses, and feeding hay in August and in September.
Their producers that fed hay early, and Livestock from over graining pastures, and maintain that three or 4 inches of solar panel, even though it got crispy, when the rains came in late September, they were paid in dividends of grass over the overgrazed farms.
I took a lot of clippings that fall. The farms that were maintained with solar panel, average 3.7 times more forage regrowth on a basis than the over grazed neighbors. That did not maintain good stock freezing heights.
Most of the Farge is that we are looking get, that is three or 4 inches. They let them graze the ground. Several of those that have done a good job grazed that winter -- way into the winter. [ Indiscernible ] Then buying expensive pay or selling cows.
That same philosophy holds true for fall regrowth most years. More rest, more regrowth, more regrowth to graze on later. This is especially true in the fall.
We need to rest as many acres that we can in the fall, especially if you [ Indiscernible ]have tall present that I have not found any cold season grass then fall. [ Indiscernible ]It maintains protein and digestibility. I think the worst, I have personally seen is about 1110 -- 11% protein and digestibility right before spring. And it wasn't my place.
By getting livestock off pastures you will maximize fall growth. And the new fall growth will have the best quality for stockpiling. Farge's that do not hold up well for overwinter, should be graced first. Such as Orchard grass. Even then, ideally, they should be graced in the fall after they have become dormant. Which, for most part, is normally after several nights in a row, below 26degrees.
Such lack -- let's see what else we can grazed during this period. We certainly do not want to feed hay, if we don't have to, as there are other options usually. I would assess what else to a have to graze, while we grow as much fall growth as possible.
[ Indiscernible ] Can vary from year to year stocks will start out in the 80% crude protein range. Approximately 70% total digestible nutrients. In over a period of about 45 or 60 days will grow up to about 5% crude protein, and about 40% digestibility. Stocks will meet most of spring cows energy needs during mid-gestation. Growing animals such as Cavs, and having lactating cows, may be lacking in energy and protein team, and most likely supplement if ran on stocks only. Like in this picture.
I apologize, I talked a lot about cows. It is what I talk most about. Even at home, I have cattle and sheep. But that is just the way it is.
Typical 1 acre corn residue is needed for animal unit for raising [ Indiscernible ]. Weekly allocation seem to work very well heard you need to figure out how many acres of stock you have, and then you can figure out what will be needed for one week of grazing with your heard.
Energy can be increased on the stock feels by feeding annuals as early as possible. August and early sub timbre -- September are for fall grazing. These are generally sewn into crop feels after harvest, but can be flown on or seated with homemade drop type, or however you can get them on there. The earlier the better.
And more potential for growth and grazing in the fall. There is a wider way -- wide array. [ Indiscernible ] When it will be graced. But also you need to be thinking about what you want left groaned afterword.
My favorite fall grazing mix is absolutely spring coats, Brassica, turnips, and serial right. The oats and turnips provide really good high quality yielding, [ Indiscernible ] early and it comes on quick.
You do have to have moisture for it to get to come up in the grow well. If you do, you have good stuff to graze. The ride lies halfway behind it for a long time. It will stop after done grazing the oats and the turnips, it provides winter cover. A spring residue. And quite possibly some spring grazing.
Crop fields need to be grazed, ideally, under dry or frozen conditions. And have some type of portable water system that moves across the field with the livestock. Reducing trailing and compaction.
The corn stocks, or more likely to -- shocks and leaves provide dry matter. [ Indiscernible ] Such as oats, turnips and others. [ Indiscernible ] By themselves, need drive fiber consumed with them to help maintain, and [ Indiscernible ]get better absorption in nutrients and gain. Less turnips or other Brassica's match up very well with stock.
I am seeing more summer, annual, warm season type grasses such as sedan [ Indiscernible ] in and out of mixes. For summer crops. [ Indiscernible ] One of their many attributes is being quality feed. These can be grazed it late in the summer and early fall as well, providing large amounts of graze both forage planted early enough. And again, good growing conditions. They do need moisture as well. We do need to remember, that sedan grass and sick and hybrids -- sedan hybrids. Produce a cyanide compound when frosted. Causing production of [ Indiscernible ] acid. Livestock should be removed at least two weeks, to allow those barges to try down, and the acid to dissipate before raising again after it has been frosted.
These barges could be harvested for bail each right after being frosted, or [ Indiscernible ]later, as long as they are allowed their normal process which is generally, at least 3 to 4 weeks.
Even frosted areas that are just pockets in a field, can have issues. Any regrowth, from the base of the plant, after harvest is an frosted, can also be very high in [ Indiscernible ] acid. If you are in doubt about nitrates and acid, [ Indiscernible ] tested before you feed it or graze it. To be safe.
This picture that I have on the screen, is turnips and [ Indiscernible ] sedan grass mix. It makes a great combination to utilize in late fall, or even early winter. The sedan provides good fiber, to balance water and protein in the currents.
[ Indiscernible ] Dry hay along the turnips. And a lot of people have heard me say, mix is safer to walk closer behind the cows.
If annuals or planted with financial assistance, he to go into that cup I will mention. The primary purpose cannot be compromised by grazing it. You need to check the program guidelines, prior to grazing it, to see what you can do. Either way, your best still grazed under dry or frozen conditions. And you also need to wait until you have enough growth available. Make sure that you are leaving the residual behind the regrowth.
Certainly, also do not want to leave livestock in one spot for multiple days. Feeding in the field is also something that you do not want to do as it increases the chance of compaction and trailing, and forces you to have to do tillage to fix it the next spring. And that can be going against program.
What else can we graze to extend the grazing season? Certainly hay aftermath can be grazed but it is also best to be grazed after being dormant. That helps prevent late regrowth from pulling reserves from the root system. That can slow and reduce spring growth. Winter animals, do best and yield more for fall and winter grazing opportunities. The earlier they are planted. If planted early enough, normal guidelines, the last risky type of barges. From this point, fairly late into the fall, will include winter wheat [ Indiscernible ], winter peas, and in some cases desk places [ Indiscernible ] having potential for fall and winter graces. But early spring grazing as well. Plan corn residue, good balance of protein and fiber available. If you are grazing and growing animals, like the placement have first, [ Indiscernible ] and stockpiled forage for stock.
I mentioned watcher. Needs availability. It depends upon the forage being fed. Dry hay requires a lot of water. Something like turnips requires almost none. Portable systems get more challenging as winter progresses. Consider utilizing dryer forages when water is easier to move, or when weather facilities are available. And high moisture barges for colder weather, when portable systems are no longer workable, or water is limited.
Back to the inventory. Compared to what you have, you figure what you figured for livestock on how much you will need for what you will have, -- you know about how much dry matter you will need to get them through the winter, and the idea on how much you have available to feed them.
In fact, you want to supplement if you need to. If you're forages are short. [ Indiscernible ] Can work into your feeding plan. If your hay is a more quality you might want to do that anyway.
In a formal, use 3% for the intake estimate colleges high but if we have a wet cold winter, energy needs to keep warm, will increase. Growing animals will have higher needs, better to overestimate them to be short. Cold, wet, and muddy conditions will reduce -- increase [ Indiscernible ] requirements. If you are sure on fee do need to plan on purchasing more hay, consider reducing animal numbers. There are usually cows that or should be, [ Indiscernible ] at of saying, old, and hopefully everything balances out and you have reserves.
In summary, most of us, especially where I am, we should initially shoot for reducing hay feeding days to 120 days, and that's a big change for most producers. If you are already at this point, good for you. See if you can produce a little bit more. Today, is a good time to take the time to figure out your inventory of winter feed, which includes any standing reasonable forage, hay or other storage feed. Take advantage of any potential growth, even if it means feeding hay early, be flexible or think about what will be grazed, plan ahead. It just livestock numbers if needed. There are always animals that can be called. Allocate forages efficiently as possible, and know what will be needed until new growth next spring. Sharpened the pencil to make sure it balances out.
Tried to keep on grazing. Thank you.
Thank you Victor. We have had several questions that have come in. And we will try to get through all of them.
First of all, can you have too much the grooms, Clover, not just during the growing season, but during this typical non-growing season, like when they are grazing stock while? -- Stockpile?
That is a good question.
I typically -- do not see in over abundance of the grooms in the fall. The grass is taking Gover during the hotter drier periods during the summer. And you see those taper back. I do not see it as a problem in the fall.
Okay.
I think you have answered this cop but I will reiterate. [ Indiscernible ] When you are grazing that as stock pile, late fall, early winter, is the end of it, possibly [ Indiscernible ] still in issue? At that time?
Usually after you have had hard freezes on [ Indiscernible ], the content of those forages starts decreasing rapidly. The longer it is out there, the less that it is present. It becomes less of a problem as winter goes on.
Okay. There are some [ Indiscernible ] in North Carolina that shows that as well but it does go down.
Someone asked a question, you mentioned earlier on, carrying capacity. Is that the same or similar to the forage annual balance that we like people to figure out and prescribed grazing standard?
That would be exactly the same.
Okay.
You said these plants are dormant in the winter, so can we graze them lower, and if so, how low can you grow for instance or how can [ Indiscernible ]you graze without damaging regrowth?
You will find that if there is totally and completely all fall regrowth on the site, it is hard not to take it fairly close down to the ground. You will find that you have only a couple of inches at best left out there. But if it is not grazed until it goes dormant, typically, it will not hurt that next spring growth. And it grapes you the opportunity -- give you the opportunity to make it easier for those to take hold.
If you are grazing stuff left over from summer growth, you will find -- you might want to go to a high density type raising. -- Grazing. With [ Indiscernible ] -- that will help build soil. It will still like you don't have much left but you will have a lot laying on the soil surface.
Okay. Good.
Here's a question, why not save our pastures, and the -- feed hay in the woods?
That is an interesting question. I don't know how to answer that. I think, at least, where I am out, in the Midwest. We frowned upon using woods for Barnes. Most of the time, you are opening up that resource for erosion, which having a harder time protecting itself from, once you open it up. Most of the times, woods also has a creek or water body, close to it or running through it. You can certainly get into water quality issues.
I think are you would be better off to try to stay on the outside of that would -- woods. And use that woods to bulk it up to the extent with some evergreens, you can actually create more of a living barn. And use those as a wind break, and still get the same effect.
Yes. I support you there Victor. I think there are situations where you may be forced to do -- due to weather, where that might be the place where the livestock To be for a short amount of time. If it wants to be management issue, it does not want to be a -- putting them in the words all winter, every winter. You will see -- and I have seen the effects of the on the trees. And the natural resources collect you say. Almost always some type of surface water nearby. Usually not a good idea to just let it go. But it takes management, if you are forced to do so. Segment the twist of that question, and the wintertime, or a normal growing seasons, here in Indiana, we look at what's -- look at words and judge on a canopy. 30% canopy on that site, we will consider woods. And you will not grow very much forage underneath. If you have less than 30% canopy, then that causes a breaking point where you can grow forage underneath the trees, and the summertime, and protect the soil resource.
You caught me offguard asking me about a situational wintertime use. I am not in favor of it.
Okay.
Here is another good question. In using these strategies that you spoke of, how much does [ Indiscernible ] body condition score, does it go down or slip, using these methods? If so, how much can you allow the body condition score slip, let's say on cattle, in the winter?
That is another good question. Most of the time, especially thinking about [ Indiscernible ] cows in the winter, I would like to see them with the body condition score of at least five. And probably at the very bottom, up 4.5 honestly.
I have never seen too many cows whose much weight -- if the quality of forage is good. In fact, normally -- my experience, especially when grazing stockpiled fescue, the quality is there, which typically it is. I see in increase in body condition score over the winter.
Okay.
I have a comment. If you have to feed when soil conditions are not good, using alleyways or access roads, is one way to try to cut down on writing gang compaction. That's a good point.
I think you have mentioned this, can you quickly talk about the seating or establishment timing of some alternative annual forage, such as the Nebraska mix on the screen. About what time did you do that?
I normally, I live in the southern part of Indiana. My timeframe, if at all possible, is in early September. That is usually my goal. Feeding dates will vary quite a bit, depending upon where you are in the country. I realize that night don't like to get into too much of feeding dates. If it is a crop fields, just as quickly as you can get those crops off, and get that feed into the better. I think it is still to your advantage, sometimes, if you want to get good grazing in the fall, it's an advantage to you, to consider a shorter season soybean in the field so you can get it off earlier. You can [ Indiscernible ]do the same thing or droughts.
Okay. Great. One more question, and we will be about done. And I can turn it back over to Holly.
This is a good comment, that you mentioned about lowering cow numbers, if your situation will be running out of feed. Back to that stock great verses that real high stocking rate.
One option, is lowering cow numbers, keeping the Cavs longer. Would be another option. To have any comment on that?
I think there is always a lot of options. A lot of things will depend upon whether or not hay is available. Will maintaining or keeping those extra cows and cats over the worth it, against what extra feed cost it will take to do so. That is something that everyone has to pencil out for themselves.
I mentioned, if you increase your efficiency of your system, and the longer run, you are building your forage base, [ Indiscernible ] I even go as far as saying to get healthier soils out there. You will find real quickly, that's your land base will carry a lot more animals.
I have also said in the past, if you can double the yield or double the production on the ground that you have, you basically got yourself [ Indiscernible ]. I think it's something we all need to look at. Nobody wants to reduce animal numbers of a don't have to. But a lot of times, we keep animals back that we should not keep back, and it costs money to do so.
That was good. That was a great answer.
Just a couple of more. These are both very good ones. What you -- talking about cattle, is there anything different about the methods you shared -- whether it be small ruminants, such as sheep and goats?
No. You can certainly stockpiled any of those forages for sheep and goats as well. I find it a bit easier to certainly do cows -- starting to get into heaviest note periods, and ice. SQL did down quite well in the snow. They prefer not to go much deeper than their eyes. But you will see them, doing instead, thickets deeper, they will Paul down. That event any animal. And they are good to therefore urge. I've done the same thing with sheep. As I said earlier, from my wife telling me that she felt sorry for them. It take hay out to them, when they are in snow almost 8 inches deep which is pretty deep for sheep. For them to barely touched the hay. Orchard grass with alfalfa. They went back and dug down and ate the [ Indiscernible ]. And ended up testing some that year, the test results were very high quality stockpiled forage. They were right. Animals, generally are right. They can separate out forages and know exactly what they should be grazing. And they will balance if you give them the opportunity. Goats, or more finicky. Depending upon the breed, tend to like a little bit more shelter. They can be a bit more challenging to try in the winter on stockpiled forages. Were it's perennial or annuals, you can certainly do it. You need to take if you horrible shelters, as you go. But it is workable.
The biggest challenge with the small remnants is trying to get offense to adapt. I have certainly used knitting a lot the past. Netting has its own issues. Especially when you have six into the snow in the ground, and if you have ice layers on it. I have had better days.
I think, once you have trained animals, especially if they are used to using poly wire. It's my favorite choice of something to use. From keeping them more where I want to have them.
Okay, great.
We have other questions but we will finish with this one last one. It's a good one to go out on.
Have you done any soil health measurements, or observations about using some of these strategies on your own farm?
That is a loaded question. Yes. I have tried different methods of winter grazing. From strip type grazing, getting small amount every day to slightly larger allotments of new regrowth, fall forage regrowth.
If I really want to build up soil, I am better off to leave a little bit of extra summer growth with it. Allow for a longer rest in the fall. And getting off is early as August. And not graze until January or February. When I do so, strip graze, only on allocating out, depending upon time. Or my wife time. One day increments or 12 hour increments. To make it as efficient as possible. I see the most increase in soil health and the biggest response Spring. [ Indiscernible ] We have done the same type of thing with sheep. Ironically, it is slightly different. The sheep, we can put right into a larger area. So we don't have to move them quite as often in the wintertime. And they will do a very good job of lying down anything that they don't eat. Only consuming the better parts. [ Indiscernible ] That, sometimes, actually responds and has better results this spring, then when the cattle have been stripped graze. If you walk out there early in the spring, and start digging down -- and the amount of earthworms and insects, and life that you see in the soil. Totally unbelievable, compared to sites where it is basically [ Indiscernible ] over winter, or graze down tight our not graze over winter. Materials laying on the ground, more cover and maintaining that cover, is very important. I had on one slide, talking about the drought year. On those slides, I had a thermometer on the paired pictures.
We start looking at soil temperature in the summertime, on these sites. Maintaining that cover and out good insulation value on top, makes all the difference in the world, when you run into build organic matter, or if you want to build soil health.
Those two pictures, if you look at them side-by-side, where the site was eating down to the ground. The soil temperature that day was in the upper 90s on that site. You did not have to go very far where more soil was showing. 110 or 112degrees of 2 inches of depth. Compared to the right side, where it was 77degrees.
Don't think that that doesn't make a big impact as it does.
A big effect on the microbes when it gets very hot.
We have used up the time. We would like to thank Victor and audience properties of patient.
-- For participation. Before I turn it back to Holli. People asking about stock piling. You can Google it and look it up. There is a you tube out winter grazing a better way to feed talking about stockpiling and stock piling rescue. And a lot of people have said will this work in my area? I did a quick search, not very long, and in one half-hour I found that there is information about stockpiling from these universities, northern Vermont. All the way across Minnesota, North Dakota, and all the way into the South, including Florida.
The Florida University has done some work on that as well. Several Southeast states, into East Texas. And I tried to take, not necessarily the best out of all of those comp and I put together some of those in the handouts. Be sure to download those if you want to see more information about doing some of these strategies in your area. Again, thank you Victor and audience. I will turn it back to Holly.
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